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from the dark web to your radio done you
00:00:07 from the dark web to your radio done you

00:00:07 from the dark web to your radio done you were listening to cyber talk radio on
00:00:09 were listening to cyber talk radio on

00:00:09 were listening to cyber talk radio on news 400 of
00:00:16


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welcome to cyber talk radio I'm your
00:00:19 welcome to cyber talk radio I'm your

00:00:19 welcome to cyber talk radio I'm your host Bret Pyatt a 20-year internet
00:00:21 host Bret Pyatt a 20-year internet

00:00:21 host Bret Pyatt a 20-year internet security veteran joined this week by
00:00:23 security veteran joined this week by

00:00:23 security veteran joined this week by Jill Vassar of epicenter and I will let
00:00:26 Jill Vassar of epicenter and I will let

00:00:26 Jill Vassar of epicenter and I will let Jill explain a little bit about her
00:00:29 Jill explain a little bit about her

00:00:29 Jill explain a little bit about her organization and what they're working on
00:00:31 organization and what they're working on

00:00:31 organization and what they're working on but recently I had an opportunity to
00:00:35 but recently I had an opportunity to

00:00:35 but recently I had an opportunity to join a panel at an event that they they
00:00:38 join a panel at an event that they they

00:00:38 join a panel at an event that they they ran talking about resiliency so we're
00:00:40 ran talking about resiliency so we're

00:00:40 ran talking about resiliency so we're gonna cover that in this program and
00:00:44 gonna cover that in this program and

00:00:44 gonna cover that in this program and some other things about what epicenters
00:00:45 some other things about what epicenters

00:00:45 some other things about what epicenters working on what's going on here in San
00:00:47 working on what's going on here in San

00:00:47 working on what's going on here in San Antonio and I think it's a very
00:00:49 Antonio and I think it's a very

00:00:49 Antonio and I think it's a very interesting project and around
00:00:52 interesting project and around

00:00:52 interesting project and around innovation it'll have some ties into
00:00:54 innovation it'll have some ties into

00:00:54 innovation it'll have some ties into cybersecurity but if you're expecting
00:00:55 cybersecurity but if you're expecting

00:00:56 cybersecurity but if you're expecting hardcore cyber security this week on the
00:00:57 hardcore cyber security this week on the

00:00:57 hardcore cyber security this week on the program you may punt over this one a
00:00:59 program you may punt over this one a

00:00:59 program you may punt over this one a little bit I may get on a soapbox for a
00:01:01 little bit I may get on a soapbox for a

00:01:01 little bit I may get on a soapbox for a few moments about authentication and
00:01:04 few moments about authentication and

00:01:04 few moments about authentication and biometrics and some of these that I
00:01:05 biometrics and some of these that I

00:01:05 biometrics and some of these that I talked about in the panel that we're
00:01:07 talked about in the panel that we're

00:01:07 talked about in the panel that we're gonna talk a lot about innovation maybe
00:01:09 gonna talk a lot about innovation maybe

00:01:09 gonna talk a lot about innovation maybe talk some about the public utilities and
00:01:11 talk some about the public utilities and

00:01:11 talk some about the public utilities and energy sector so that's what we're gonna
00:01:13 energy sector so that's what we're gonna

00:01:13 energy sector so that's what we're gonna cover here this week if you are
00:01:15 cover here this week if you are

00:01:15 cover here this week if you are listening to us on 1200 W AI and won't
00:01:17 listening to us on 1200 W AI and won't

00:01:17 listening to us on 1200 W AI and won't be able to stay for the full program the
00:01:19 be able to stay for the full program the

00:01:19 be able to stay for the full program the rebroadcast of this will go up online on
00:01:22 rebroadcast of this will go up online on

00:01:22 rebroadcast of this will go up online on our website at www.att.com/biz
00:01:32


00:01:32
abbis enter this doesn't mean to do with
00:01:34 abbis enter this doesn't mean to do with

00:01:34 abbis enter this doesn't mean to do with EpiPens it does not okay that I get that
00:01:37 EpiPens it does not okay that I get that

00:01:37 EpiPens it does not okay that I get that quite quite a bit yes when you look at
00:01:39 quite quite a bit yes when you look at

00:01:39 quite quite a bit yes when you look at our logo its capital e capital P capital
00:01:42 our logo its capital e capital P capital

00:01:42 our logo its capital e capital P capital I and then Center so we say epicenter
00:01:45 I and then Center so we say epicenter

00:01:45 I and then Center so we say epicenter but that stands for energy partnerships
00:01:47 but that stands for energy partnerships

00:01:47 but that stands for energy partnerships and innovation and epicenter is the
00:01:50 and innovation and epicenter is the

00:01:50 and innovation and epicenter is the ultimate manifestation of our
00:01:53 ultimate manifestation of our

00:01:53 ultimate manifestation of our community's new energy economy the new
00:01:56 community's new energy economy the new

00:01:56 community's new energy economy the new energy economy came together as CPS
00:01:58 energy economy came together as CPS

00:01:58 energy economy came together as CPS energy our municipal owned utility
00:02:01 energy our municipal owned utility

00:02:01 energy our municipal owned utility wanted to diversify its generating
00:02:03 wanted to diversify its generating

00:02:03 wanted to diversify its generating capacity into renewables and so they
00:02:06 capacity into renewables and so they

00:02:06 capacity into renewables and so they contracted with a number of companies
00:02:08 contracted with a number of companies

00:02:08 contracted with a number of companies from across the country to not only help
00:02:10 from across the country to not only help

00:02:10 from across the country to not only help them do that
00:02:11 them do that

00:02:11 them do that but to open offices here to create jobs
00:02:15 but to open offices here to create jobs

00:02:15 but to open offices here to create jobs here create investment here and so three
00:02:18 here create investment here and so three

00:02:18 here create investment here and so three of those new energy economy partners
00:02:20 of those new energy economy partners

00:02:20 of those new energy economy partners joined with CPS energy to create
00:02:22 joined with CPS energy to create

00:02:22 joined with CPS energy to create epicenter those three our latest in gear
00:02:25 epicenter those three our latest in gear

00:02:25 epicenter those three our latest in gear Silver Spring networks which has now
00:02:27 Silver Spring networks which has now

00:02:27 Silver Spring networks which has now been bought by Itron
00:02:29 been bought by Itron

00:02:29 been bought by Itron Oh see I solar power so these four
00:02:32 Oh see I solar power so these four

00:02:32 Oh see I solar power so these four founders had a vision for a historic
00:02:35 founders had a vision for a historic

00:02:35 founders had a vision for a historic power plant that is on the mission reach
00:02:37 power plant that is on the mission reach

00:02:37 power plant that is on the mission reach of the San Antonio Riverwalk and we are
00:02:40 of the San Antonio Riverwalk and we are

00:02:40 of the San Antonio Riverwalk and we are currently in a multi million fifty three
00:02:42 currently in a multi million fifty three

00:02:42 currently in a multi million fifty three million dollar to be exact
00:02:44 million dollar to be exact

00:02:44 million dollar to be exact capital campaign to transform that
00:02:46 capital campaign to transform that

00:02:46 capital campaign to transform that property into epicenter and while we're
00:02:50 property into epicenter and while we're

00:02:50 property into epicenter and while we're in that capital campaign we've already
00:02:52 in that capital campaign we've already

00:02:52 in that capital campaign we've already started launching our programming which
00:02:54 started launching our programming which

00:02:54 started launching our programming which I'm happy to talk to you about today and
00:02:55 I'm happy to talk to you about today and

00:02:55 I'm happy to talk to you about today and our summit last week where you spoke was
00:02:58 our summit last week where you spoke was

00:02:58 our summit last week where you spoke was part of that programming yeah that's the
00:02:59 part of that programming yeah that's the

00:02:59 part of that programming yeah that's the second year for the summit that's right
00:03:01 second year for the summit that's right

00:03:01 second year for the summit that's right yeah the first year we focused on the
00:03:04 yeah the first year we focused on the

00:03:04 yeah the first year we focused on the Internet of Things which in your world
00:03:07 Internet of Things which in your world

00:03:07 Internet of Things which in your world and in the world of your listeners I'm
00:03:08 and in the world of your listeners I'm

00:03:08 and in the world of your listeners I'm sure everyone is well familiar but we
00:03:11 sure everyone is well familiar but we

00:03:11 sure everyone is well familiar but we found that a lot of people have not
00:03:13 found that a lot of people have not

00:03:13 found that a lot of people have not heard that term and even though they
00:03:15 heard that term and even though they

00:03:15 heard that term and even though they understand how a nest thermostat might
00:03:17 understand how a nest thermostat might

00:03:17 understand how a nest thermostat might work they don't realize how many things
00:03:19 work they don't realize how many things

00:03:19 work they don't realize how many things in their lives are connected on those
00:03:21 in their lives are connected on those

00:03:21 in their lives are connected on those platforms and so it was a general
00:03:24 platforms and so it was a general

00:03:24 platforms and so it was a general introduction to the Internet of Things
00:03:25 introduction to the Internet of Things

00:03:25 introduction to the Internet of Things for the general business community very
00:03:28 for the general business community very

00:03:28 for the general business community very successful and IOT is real important to
00:03:31 successful and IOT is real important to

00:03:31 successful and IOT is real important to the future of energy which is why we
00:03:33 the future of energy which is why we

00:03:33 the future of energy which is why we focused on that then last week was all
00:03:36 focused on that then last week was all

00:03:36 focused on that then last week was all about resiliency and how to keep a
00:03:39 about resiliency and how to keep a

00:03:39 about resiliency and how to keep a business in operation after a disaster
00:03:41 business in operation after a disaster

00:03:41 business in operation after a disaster whether it be a man-made disaster or a
00:03:43 whether it be a man-made disaster or a

00:03:43 whether it be a man-made disaster or a natural disaster or a cyber disaster and
00:03:46 natural disaster or a cyber disaster and

00:03:46 natural disaster or a cyber disaster and hence your expertise came into play on
00:03:49 hence your expertise came into play on

00:03:49 hence your expertise came into play on one of our panels yes so with the
00:03:51 one of our panels yes so with the

00:03:51 one of our panels yes so with the Internet of Things this we've talked
00:03:54 Internet of Things this we've talked

00:03:54 Internet of Things this we've talked about it a number of times on the
00:03:56 about it a number of times on the

00:03:56 about it a number of times on the program one of the real interesting
00:03:57 program one of the real interesting

00:03:57 program one of the real interesting questions is so with that say that nest
00:04:00 questions is so with that say that nest

00:04:00 questions is so with that say that nest thermostat or other learning devices in
00:04:03 thermostat or other learning devices in

00:04:03 thermostat or other learning devices in the house like that nest all of that
00:04:05 the house like that nest all of that

00:04:05 the house like that nest all of that learning is tied to me as the homeowner
00:04:07 learning is tied to me as the homeowner

00:04:07 learning is tied to me as the homeowner right now so when I move the house is
00:04:09 right now so when I move the house is

00:04:09 right now so when I move the house is going to unlearn all of that information
00:04:11 going to unlearn all of that information

00:04:11 going to unlearn all of that information there's not a way for me to hand the
00:04:14 there's not a way for me to hand the

00:04:14 there's not a way for me to hand the learning information over and maybe you
00:04:16 learning information over and maybe you

00:04:16 learning information over and maybe you wouldn't want to hand the learning
00:04:17 wouldn't want to hand the learning

00:04:17 wouldn't want to hand the learning information over to the next owner in
00:04:20 information over to the next owner in

00:04:20 information over to the next owner in the home so it's gonna be interesting
00:04:22 the home so it's gonna be interesting

00:04:22 the home so it's gonna be interesting all the data that's collected by these
00:04:25 all the data that's collected by these

00:04:25 all the data that's collected by these smart devices
00:04:26 smart devices

00:04:26 smart devices what do you transfer to new owners what
00:04:29 what do you transfer to new owners what

00:04:29 what do you transfer to new owners what do you not transfer how does that impact
00:04:31 do you not transfer how does that impact

00:04:31 do you not transfer how does that impact the the power grid how does that impact
00:04:35 the the power grid how does that impact

00:04:35 the the power grid how does that impact with because if all the learning my
00:04:37 with because if all the learning my

00:04:37 with because if all the learning my house has done over the last few years
00:04:39 house has done over the last few years

00:04:39 house has done over the last few years I've owned it that goes away and it
00:04:40 I've owned it that goes away and it

00:04:40 I've owned it that goes away and it starts over again if you have
00:04:44 starts over again if you have

00:04:44 starts over again if you have it's complicated haven't we haven't
00:04:46 it's complicated haven't we haven't

00:04:46 it's complicated haven't we haven't tackled that yet but somebody's working
00:04:48 tackled that yet but somebody's working

00:04:48 tackled that yet but somebody's working on that and that's that's the kind of
00:04:49 on that and that's that's the kind of

00:04:49 on that and that's that's the kind of thing that epicenter can play a role in
00:04:52 thing that epicenter can play a role in

00:04:52 thing that epicenter can play a role in because we'll have a think tank startup
00:04:55 because we'll have a think tank startup

00:04:55 because we'll have a think tank startup business incubator several other
00:04:57 business incubator several other

00:04:57 business incubator several other elements that we can talk about but
00:04:58 elements that we can talk about but

00:04:58 elements that we can talk about but that's exactly the kind of challenge
00:05:00 that's exactly the kind of challenge

00:05:00 that's exactly the kind of challenge that epicenter might touch and you
00:05:03 that epicenter might touch and you

00:05:03 that epicenter might touch and you talked about the solar panels that's
00:05:05 talked about the solar panels that's

00:05:05 talked about the solar panels that's that's a very interesting conversation
00:05:07 that's a very interesting conversation

00:05:07 that's a very interesting conversation that my husband and I in fact had you
00:05:10 that my husband and I in fact had you

00:05:10 that my husband and I in fact had you know should we pursue the solar panels
00:05:11 know should we pursue the solar panels

00:05:11 know should we pursue the solar panels what do we do if we saw the house soon
00:05:13 what do we do if we saw the house soon

00:05:13 what do we do if we saw the house soon blah blah blah blah
00:05:14 blah blah blah blah

00:05:14 blah blah blah blah yeah but you know eventually as
00:05:18 yeah but you know eventually as

00:05:18 yeah but you know eventually as utilities move from a generation model
00:05:20 utilities move from a generation model

00:05:20 utilities move from a generation model where they build a big power plant and
00:05:22 where they build a big power plant and

00:05:22 where they build a big power plant and they transmit the electricity over long
00:05:24 they transmit the electricity over long

00:05:24 they transmit the electricity over long distances and then they distribute it
00:05:26 distances and then they distribute it

00:05:26 distances and then they distribute it into your homes and your businesses it's
00:05:28 into your homes and your businesses it's

00:05:28 into your homes and your businesses it's moving to a distribution model where
00:05:31 moving to a distribution model where

00:05:31 moving to a distribution model where there's lots of generating capacity all
00:05:33 there's lots of generating capacity all

00:05:33 there's lots of generating capacity all over the place including your roof and
00:05:36 over the place including your roof and

00:05:36 over the place including your roof and how that gets distributed in this new
00:05:39 how that gets distributed in this new

00:05:39 how that gets distributed in this new model remains to be seen we're we're
00:05:41 model remains to be seen we're we're

00:05:41 model remains to be seen we're we're just part of that conversation
00:05:43 just part of that conversation

00:05:43 just part of that conversation industry-wide and the Internet of Things
00:05:45 industry-wide and the Internet of Things

00:05:45 industry-wide and the Internet of Things will be a big part of that conversation
00:05:47 will be a big part of that conversation

00:05:47 will be a big part of that conversation yeah and the the telecommunications
00:05:50 yeah and the the telecommunications

00:05:50 yeah and the the telecommunications providers have gone through somewhat of
00:05:52 providers have gone through somewhat of

00:05:52 providers have gone through somewhat of a similar transition with user-generated
00:05:54 a similar transition with user-generated

00:05:54 a similar transition with user-generated content so it used to be you would get
00:05:56 content so it used to be you would get

00:05:56 content so it used to be you would get an internet connection at your house you
00:05:59 an internet connection at your house you

00:05:59 an internet connection at your house you would go send a small request up to the
00:06:01 would go send a small request up to the

00:06:01 would go send a small request up to the internet that small request would be hey
00:06:04 internet that small request would be hey

00:06:04 internet that small request would be hey I'd like to fetch this webpage
00:06:05 I'd like to fetch this webpage

00:06:05 I'd like to fetch this webpage I would like to stream this video and
00:06:07 I would like to stream this video and

00:06:07 I would like to stream this video and then most of the data was flowing from
00:06:09 then most of the data was flowing from

00:06:09 then most of the data was flowing from the internet cloud down to your computer
00:06:12 the internet cloud down to your computer

00:06:12 the internet cloud down to your computer but now with all of us taking pictures
00:06:14 but now with all of us taking pictures

00:06:14 but now with all of us taking pictures on our smart phones with all of us
00:06:16 on our smart phones with all of us

00:06:16 on our smart phones with all of us creating video and we're uploading that
00:06:18 creating video and we're uploading that

00:06:18 creating video and we're uploading that content now from all of these different
00:06:20 content now from all of these different

00:06:20 content now from all of these different nodes so the same things happening in
00:06:23 nodes so the same things happening in

00:06:23 nodes so the same things happening in the power grid for for those of you more
00:06:25 the power grid for for those of you more

00:06:25 the power grid for for those of you more into the internet side of tech things if
00:06:27 into the internet side of tech things if

00:06:27 into the internet side of tech things if you think about everybody putting solar
00:06:29 you think about everybody putting solar

00:06:29 you think about everybody putting solar panels on their house it's the
00:06:31 panels on their house it's the

00:06:31 panels on their house it's the equivalent of you you uploading video
00:06:32 equivalent of you you uploading video

00:06:32 equivalent of you you uploading video into Facebook so now that the power is
00:06:34 into Facebook so now that the power is

00:06:34 into Facebook so now that the power is flowing both directions on these power
00:06:35 flowing both directions on these power

00:06:35 flowing both directions on these power grids for the first time that's exactly
00:06:37 grids for the first time that's exactly

00:06:37 grids for the first time that's exactly right and CPS energy our utility here in
00:06:40 right and CPS energy our utility here in

00:06:41 right and CPS energy our utility here in town is about probably by now close to
00:06:43 town is about probably by now close to

00:06:43 town is about probably by now close to 100% deployed with their smart meters
00:06:45 100% deployed with their smart meters

00:06:45 100% deployed with their smart meters and those smart meters are are on every
00:06:50 and those smart meters are are on every

00:06:50 and those smart meters are are on every home every business and it allows them
00:06:53 home every business and it allows them

00:06:53 home every business and it allows them to read your meter without sending a
00:06:54 to read your meter without sending a

00:06:54 to read your meter without sending a person yeah no those meters are
00:06:56 person yeah no those meters are

00:06:56 person yeah no those meters are connected
00:06:57 connected

00:06:57 connected UPS all the the people that used to go
00:06:58 UPS all the the people that used to go

00:06:58 UPS all the the people that used to go put a magnet out on their meter so they
00:07:00 put a magnet out on their meter so they

00:07:00 put a magnet out on their meter so they could run electricity without the CPS
00:07:03 could run electricity without the CPS

00:07:03 could run electricity without the CPS noticing as well yeah that the hacker
00:07:05 noticing as well yeah that the hacker

00:07:05 noticing as well yeah that the hacker attacks yes
00:07:06 attacks yes

00:07:06 attacks yes it hasn't heard that one honestly yeah
00:07:08 it hasn't heard that one honestly yeah

00:07:08 it hasn't heard that one honestly yeah yeah so there's there's ways on on going
00:07:12 yeah so there's there's ways on on going

00:07:12 yeah so there's there's ways on on going after different power meters to do
00:07:13 after different power meters to do

00:07:13 after different power meters to do different
00:07:14 different

00:07:14 different you don't put a complete magnet on there
00:07:18 you don't put a complete magnet on there

00:07:18 you don't put a complete magnet on there there's I mean and we talk about a lot
00:07:20 there's I mean and we talk about a lot

00:07:20 there's I mean and we talk about a lot of things like this on the program is
00:07:22 of things like this on the program is

00:07:22 of things like this on the program is it's one where if you're listening out
00:07:24 it's one where if you're listening out

00:07:24 it's one where if you're listening out there you're like I'd never heard about
00:07:25 there you're like I'd never heard about

00:07:25 there you're like I'd never heard about that before but if you're a criminal
00:07:29 that before but if you're a criminal

00:07:29 that before but if you're a criminal you've absolutely heard about this this
00:07:30 you've absolutely heard about this this

00:07:30 you've absolutely heard about this this information is getting shared out there
00:07:31 information is getting shared out there

00:07:32 information is getting shared out there in the internet there's lots of people
00:07:33 in the internet there's lots of people

00:07:33 in the internet there's lots of people that have stolen power for years there's
00:07:35 that have stolen power for years there's

00:07:35 that have stolen power for years there's people that probably are still stealing
00:07:37 people that probably are still stealing

00:07:37 people that probably are still stealing power by dropping into their neighbors
00:07:38 power by dropping into their neighbors

00:07:38 power by dropping into their neighbors powerline CBS CBS drives around to look
00:07:41 powerline CBS CBS drives around to look

00:07:41 powerline CBS CBS drives around to look for those all the time or somebody call
00:07:43 for those all the time or somebody call

00:07:43 for those all the time or somebody call CPS and goes why did my power bill
00:07:45 CPS and goes why did my power bill

00:07:45 CPS and goes why did my power bill double this month they come out and go
00:07:46 double this month they come out and go

00:07:46 double this month they come out and go well that's because your neighbors now
00:07:47 well that's because your neighbors now

00:07:47 well that's because your neighbors now going to jail before yeah so don't your
00:07:50 going to jail before yeah so don't your

00:07:50 going to jail before yeah so don't your name if you think you know what I would
00:07:52 name if you think you know what I would

00:07:52 name if you think you know what I would really like to save someone my power
00:07:53 really like to save someone my power

00:07:53 really like to save someone my power bill I'm just gonna tap into my
00:07:54 bill I'm just gonna tap into my

00:07:54 bill I'm just gonna tap into my neighbors not not recommended no that is
00:07:56 neighbors not not recommended no that is

00:07:56 neighbors not not recommended no that is a a crime you will get caught because
00:07:59 a a crime you will get caught because

00:07:59 a a crime you will get caught because your neighbor it has a real big
00:08:01 your neighbor it has a real big

00:08:01 your neighbor it has a real big financial incentive to notice and turn
00:08:03 financial incentive to notice and turn

00:08:03 financial incentive to notice and turn you in so yeah I know it's it's
00:08:10 you in so yeah I know it's it's

00:08:10 you in so yeah I know it's it's interesting with the power grid in the
00:08:11 interesting with the power grid in the

00:08:11 interesting with the power grid in the solar so I heard California something I
00:08:14 solar so I heard California something I

00:08:14 solar so I heard California something I read this past week or two about they
00:08:16 read this past week or two about they

00:08:16 read this past week or two about they may be mandating solar panels on all new
00:08:18 may be mandating solar panels on all new

00:08:18 may be mandating solar panels on all new home construction have you heard
00:08:19 home construction have you heard

00:08:19 home construction have you heard anything about that I've heard about it
00:08:21 anything about that I've heard about it

00:08:21 anything about that I've heard about it I don't know any details about it it
00:08:24 I don't know any details about it it

00:08:24 I don't know any details about it it it's interesting because they if they
00:08:27 it's interesting because they if they

00:08:27 it's interesting because they if they are pursuing that path we still haven't
00:08:29 are pursuing that path we still haven't

00:08:29 are pursuing that path we still haven't solved the battery storage problem
00:08:32 solved the battery storage problem

00:08:32 solved the battery storage problem that's gonna take a long time and so I
00:08:34 that's gonna take a long time and so I

00:08:34 that's gonna take a long time and so I don't know what they're thinking about
00:08:36 don't know what they're thinking about

00:08:36 don't know what they're thinking about how fast they're going to implement that
00:08:37 how fast they're going to implement that

00:08:37 how fast they're going to implement that it's not a bad idea I think there's lots
00:08:40 it's not a bad idea I think there's lots

00:08:40 it's not a bad idea I think there's lots of opportunity there but until we can
00:08:43 of opportunity there but until we can

00:08:43 of opportunity there but until we can store power on a utility scale level
00:08:47 store power on a utility scale level

00:08:47 store power on a utility scale level economically I'm not sure what they're
00:08:50 economically I'm not sure what they're

00:08:50 economically I'm not sure what they're going to do with all that power they
00:08:51 going to do with all that power they

00:08:51 going to do with all that power they produce yeah yeah it'll be a busy it's
00:08:55 produce yeah yeah it'll be a busy it's

00:08:55 produce yeah yeah it'll be a busy it's one on the the utility grid as well if
00:08:59 one on the the utility grid as well if

00:08:59 one on the the utility grid as well if that power is getting produced it has to
00:09:00 that power is getting produced it has to

00:09:00 that power is getting produced it has to go somewhere right
00:09:02 go somewhere right

00:09:02 go somewhere right solar panels don't have an off switch so
00:09:04 solar panels don't have an off switch so

00:09:04 solar panels don't have an off switch so it's it's an interesting one for for
00:09:07 it's it's an interesting one for for

00:09:07 it's it's an interesting one for for those getting into the the physics and
00:09:09 those getting into the the physics and

00:09:09 those getting into the the physics and electricity
00:09:11 electricity

00:09:11 electricity and distribution and generation peace
00:09:13 and distribution and generation peace

00:09:13 and distribution and generation peace you're creating heat and you can cause
00:09:17 you're creating heat and you can cause

00:09:17 you're creating heat and you can cause overloads on the grid this is one of the
00:09:19 overloads on the grid this is one of the

00:09:19 overloads on the grid this is one of the the tricky things that the utilities
00:09:21 the tricky things that the utilities

00:09:21 the tricky things that the utilities have been working to figure out with
00:09:23 have been working to figure out with

00:09:23 have been working to figure out with this and like where do you put that
00:09:25 this and like where do you put that

00:09:25 this and like where do you put that battery storage how much do you flow it
00:09:27 battery storage how much do you flow it

00:09:27 battery storage how much do you flow it back through the into the main points of
00:09:29 back through the into the main points of

00:09:29 back through the into the main points of the grids the distribution setup so it's
00:09:31 the grids the distribution setup so it's

00:09:31 the grids the distribution setup so it's complicated adding all of this
00:09:33 complicated adding all of this

00:09:33 complicated adding all of this distributed production on to to that
00:09:35 distributed production on to to that

00:09:35 distributed production on to to that grid well especially it's changing so
00:09:38 grid well especially it's changing so

00:09:38 grid well especially it's changing so quickly and so fast the utility industry
00:09:40 quickly and so fast the utility industry

00:09:40 quickly and so fast the utility industry historically has not been known as being
00:09:42 historically has not been known as being

00:09:42 historically has not been known as being a nimble or very innovative or
00:09:46 a nimble or very innovative or

00:09:46 a nimble or very innovative or innovating very quickly and so epicenter
00:09:49 innovating very quickly and so epicenter

00:09:49 innovating very quickly and so epicenter is the kind of place that can accelerate
00:09:50 is the kind of place that can accelerate

00:09:50 is the kind of place that can accelerate some of that innovation and help test
00:09:53 some of that innovation and help test

00:09:53 some of that innovation and help test new technologies help prototype them all
00:09:57 new technologies help prototype them all

00:09:57 new technologies help prototype them all those kinds of things and so we're kind
00:10:00 those kinds of things and so we're kind

00:10:00 those kinds of things and so we're kind of excited about being able to play this
00:10:02 of excited about being able to play this

00:10:02 of excited about being able to play this role now on the solar panels what I've
00:10:04 role now on the solar panels what I've

00:10:04 role now on the solar panels what I've learned recently is that in my mind you
00:10:07 learned recently is that in my mind you

00:10:07 learned recently is that in my mind you know the Sun is up the solar panels are
00:10:09 know the Sun is up the solar panels are

00:10:09 know the Sun is up the solar panels are actually producing electricity but in
00:10:10 actually producing electricity but in

00:10:10 actually producing electricity but in fact they only produce about five to six
00:10:12 fact they only produce about five to six

00:10:12 fact they only produce about five to six hours a day even in a full day of
00:10:15 hours a day even in a full day of

00:10:15 hours a day even in a full day of sunshine and there are some technologies
00:10:18 sunshine and there are some technologies

00:10:18 sunshine and there are some technologies emerging in fact we have a relationship
00:10:19 emerging in fact we have a relationship

00:10:19 emerging in fact we have a relationship with a company that's kind of exists
00:10:22 with a company that's kind of exists

00:10:22 with a company that's kind of exists between here in Austin and they have
00:10:24 between here in Austin and they have

00:10:24 between here in Austin and they have created a battery
00:10:26 created a battery

00:10:26 created a battery they're called yota solar shout out my
00:10:29 they're called yota solar shout out my

00:10:29 they're called yota solar shout out my friends over there
00:10:30 friends over there

00:10:30 friends over there why OTT a solar and they have created a
00:10:34 why OTT a solar and they have created a

00:10:34 why OTT a solar and they have created a small-scale battery that exists on the
00:10:37 small-scale battery that exists on the

00:10:37 small-scale battery that exists on the back of an individual solar panel and so
00:10:41 back of an individual solar panel and so

00:10:41 back of an individual solar panel and so whatever their secret sauce is keeps
00:10:43 whatever their secret sauce is keeps

00:10:43 whatever their secret sauce is keeps that panel and that battery cool to
00:10:45 that panel and that battery cool to

00:10:45 that panel and that battery cool to manage that heat transfer and we've now
00:10:48 manage that heat transfer and we've now

00:10:48 manage that heat transfer and we've now exceeded my capacity of understanding
00:10:50 exceeded my capacity of understanding

00:10:50 exceeded my capacity of understanding exactly how that works but they've got a
00:10:52 exactly how that works but they've got a

00:10:52 exactly how that works but they've got a real promising technology so that's the
00:10:53 real promising technology so that's the

00:10:53 real promising technology so that's the kind of thing that episodes can be real
00:10:55 kind of thing that episodes can be real

00:10:55 kind of thing that episodes can be real interested in in helping promote yeah
00:10:57 interested in in helping promote yeah

00:10:57 interested in in helping promote yeah that seems like the type of things you
00:10:58 that seems like the type of things you

00:10:58 that seems like the type of things you would need for that California mandate
00:11:00 would need for that California mandate

00:11:00 would need for that California mandate to work because there's lots of reef top
00:11:02 to work because there's lots of reef top

00:11:02 to work because there's lots of reef top yeah they haven't figured it out for a
00:11:04 yeah they haven't figured it out for a

00:11:04 yeah they haven't figured it out for a utility scale yet no there's lots of
00:11:07 utility scale yet no there's lots of

00:11:07 utility scale yet no there's lots of places in California where the Sun
00:11:08 places in California where the Sun

00:11:08 places in California where the Sun shines all the time and so I mean even
00:11:13 shines all the time and so I mean even

00:11:13 shines all the time and so I mean even if you're running your air conditioner
00:11:15 if you're running your air conditioner

00:11:15 if you're running your air conditioner depending on how much of your roof you
00:11:17 depending on how much of your roof you

00:11:17 depending on how much of your roof you cover with solar you can you can still
00:11:19 cover with solar you can you can still

00:11:19 cover with solar you can you can still even be running air conditioner in your
00:11:20 even be running air conditioner in your

00:11:20 even be running air conditioner in your house if you have an energy-efficient
00:11:22 house if you have an energy-efficient

00:11:22 house if you have an energy-efficient new construction homes these are
00:11:24 new construction homes these are

00:11:24 new construction homes these are built to LEED standards now they're
00:11:26 built to LEED standards now they're

00:11:26 built to LEED standards now they're pretty efficient so you may you may be
00:11:29 pretty efficient so you may you may be

00:11:29 pretty efficient so you may you may be feeding energy back into the grid
00:11:31 feeding energy back into the grid

00:11:31 feeding energy back into the grid depending on what that Sol how big the
00:11:33 depending on what that Sol how big the

00:11:33 depending on what that Sol how big the solar array is on that roof of the the
00:11:35 solar array is on that roof of the the

00:11:35 solar array is on that roof of the the property you know won't be too long
00:11:37 property you know won't be too long

00:11:37 property you know won't be too long before we'll be able to sell the power
00:11:39 before we'll be able to sell the power

00:11:39 before we'll be able to sell the power district generate it on our roof back to
00:11:41 district generate it on our roof back to

00:11:41 district generate it on our roof back to the utility company - and so that's
00:11:43 the utility company - and so that's

00:11:43 the utility company - and so that's you've heard Paula cold Williams at CPS
00:11:45 you've heard Paula cold Williams at CPS

00:11:45 you've heard Paula cold Williams at CPS Energy talked about that distributed
00:11:47 Energy talked about that distributed

00:11:47 Energy talked about that distributed model and California may just be ahead
00:11:49 model and California may just be ahead

00:11:49 model and California may just be ahead of us a little bit yeah well that I
00:11:51 of us a little bit yeah well that I

00:11:51 of us a little bit yeah well that I thought that was happening for a while
00:11:52 thought that was happening for a while

00:11:52 thought that was happening for a while and we can go off air on this but I
00:11:54 and we can go off air on this but I

00:11:54 and we can go off air on this but I thought like people's meter were running
00:11:55 thought like people's meter were running

00:11:55 thought like people's meter were running backwards
00:11:56 backwards

00:11:56 backwards it does happen yeah it does happen and
00:11:59 it does happen yeah it does happen and

00:11:59 it does happen yeah it does happen and just not in at the scale level no you
00:12:03 just not in at the scale level no you

00:12:03 just not in at the scale level no you can imagine but there are prototypes
00:12:04 can imagine but there are prototypes

00:12:04 can imagine but there are prototypes around town that they're testing these
00:12:06 around town that they're testing these

00:12:06 around town that they're testing these things on and working on and and that's
00:12:08 things on and working on and and that's

00:12:08 things on and working on and and that's the kind of thing that we'd like to have
00:12:09 the kind of thing that we'd like to have

00:12:09 the kind of thing that we'd like to have it up is summer to demonstrate how that
00:12:11 it up is summer to demonstrate how that

00:12:11 it up is summer to demonstrate how that works our building when it's fully
00:12:13 works our building when it's fully

00:12:13 works our building when it's fully renovated and built out and by the way
00:12:16 renovated and built out and by the way

00:12:16 renovated and built out and by the way you need to come for a tour and see this
00:12:18 you need to come for a tour and see this

00:12:18 you need to come for a tour and see this beautiful 1909 building yeah but it is
00:12:21 beautiful 1909 building yeah but it is

00:12:21 beautiful 1909 building yeah but it is our goal to be a LEED certified of
00:12:22 our goal to be a LEED certified of

00:12:22 our goal to be a LEED certified of course but also Net Zero so that we will
00:12:24 course but also Net Zero so that we will

00:12:24 course but also Net Zero so that we will generate on site all the electricity we
00:12:26 generate on site all the electricity we

00:12:26 generate on site all the electricity we need to run the operation there's high
00:12:30 need to run the operation there's high

00:12:30 need to run the operation there's high ceilings in that place so you'll have
00:12:32 ceilings in that place so you'll have

00:12:32 ceilings in that place so you'll have some and you're gonna need to put some
00:12:34 some and you're gonna need to put some

00:12:34 some and you're gonna need to put some new double pane windows in to get to
00:12:36 new double pane windows in to get to

00:12:36 new double pane windows in to get to LEED certification absolutely so we
00:12:38 LEED certification absolutely so we

00:12:38 LEED certification absolutely so we don't think we're gonna make it to
00:12:39 don't think we're gonna make it to

00:12:39 don't think we're gonna make it to platinum but we are looking at some of
00:12:41 platinum but we are looking at some of

00:12:41 platinum but we are looking at some of those other levels it is a historic
00:12:42 those other levels it is a historic

00:12:42 those other levels it is a historic building and as you know in this town
00:12:44 building and as you know in this town

00:12:44 building and as you know in this town we've greatly value our historic
00:12:47 we've greatly value our historic

00:12:47 we've greatly value our historic preservation and so we're working very
00:12:49 preservation and so we're working very

00:12:49 preservation and so we're working very carefully with our architects to plan as
00:12:51 carefully with our architects to plan as

00:12:51 carefully with our architects to plan as many renewable and advanced technologies
00:12:54 many renewable and advanced technologies

00:12:54 many renewable and advanced technologies as we can put in the building while
00:12:56 as we can put in the building while

00:12:56 as we can put in the building while still meeting all the historical
00:12:58 still meeting all the historical

00:12:58 still meeting all the historical standards yes
00:13:00 standards yes

00:13:00 standards yes it's tricky we met a company in Dallas a
00:13:02 it's tricky we met a company in Dallas a

00:13:02 it's tricky we met a company in Dallas a couple weeks ago who has a window that
00:13:06 couple weeks ago who has a window that

00:13:06 couple weeks ago who has a window that includes solar cells on it and so we're
00:13:09 includes solar cells on it and so we're

00:13:09 includes solar cells on it and so we're talking to them about possibly having a
00:13:11 talking to them about possibly having a

00:13:11 talking to them about possibly having a demonstration and epicenter or putting
00:13:13 demonstration and epicenter or putting

00:13:13 demonstration and epicenter or putting their product I think you could you
00:13:14 their product I think you could you

00:13:14 their product I think you could you could get a waiver from the historic on
00:13:17 could get a waiver from the historic on

00:13:17 could get a waiver from the historic on that one for epicenter possibly they all
00:13:19 that one for epicenter possibly they all

00:13:19 that one for epicenter possibly they all have to be built custom anyway so it's
00:13:22 have to be built custom anyway so it's

00:13:22 have to be built custom anyway so it's just a matter of the dimensions so with
00:13:27 just a matter of the dimensions so with

00:13:27 just a matter of the dimensions so with epicenter the mission overall is clear I
00:13:31 epicenter the mission overall is clear I

00:13:31 epicenter the mission overall is clear I mean energy needs to innovate and move
00:13:33 mean energy needs to innovate and move

00:13:33 mean energy needs to innovate and move into this especially as more of our life
00:13:36 into this especially as more of our life

00:13:36 into this especially as more of our life becomes digital
00:13:37 becomes digital

00:13:38 becomes digital we're looking at potentially a big
00:13:39 we're looking at potentially a big

00:13:39 we're looking at potentially a big transition over the next 20 years from
00:13:42 transition over the next 20 years from

00:13:42 transition over the next 20 years from internal combustion engines to more
00:13:44 internal combustion engines to more

00:13:44 internal combustion engines to more electric vehicles and increased demand
00:13:48 electric vehicles and increased demand

00:13:48 electric vehicles and increased demand on the grid increased demand for storage
00:13:49 on the grid increased demand for storage

00:13:49 on the grid increased demand for storage all of those sorts of things so it's
00:13:50 all of those sorts of things so it's

00:13:50 all of those sorts of things so it's great to see utilities looking on the
00:13:54 great to see utilities looking on the

00:13:54 great to see utilities looking on the innovation but so the combination of
00:13:56 innovation but so the combination of

00:13:56 innovation but so the combination of epicenter and the historic activation of
00:14:00 epicenter and the historic activation of

00:14:00 epicenter and the historic activation of the power plant so how did the two of
00:14:01 the power plant so how did the two of

00:14:01 the power plant so how did the two of those come together that's a great
00:14:03 those come together that's a great

00:14:03 those come together that's a great question
00:14:04 question

00:14:04 question so like I said this this power plant was
00:14:07 so like I said this this power plant was

00:14:07 so like I said this this power plant was built in 1909 it was actually called
00:14:11 built in 1909 it was actually called

00:14:11 built in 1909 it was actually called Station B because it was the very first
00:14:13 Station B because it was the very first

00:14:13 Station B because it was the very first second power plant created in the city
00:14:17 second power plant created in the city

00:14:17 second power plant created in the city of San Antonio do you by chance know
00:14:18 of San Antonio do you by chance know

00:14:18 of San Antonio do you by chance know where station a was no it was in LA
00:14:20 where station a was no it was in LA

00:14:20 where station a was no it was in LA villita Wow yeah I've just taught you
00:14:23 villita Wow yeah I've just taught you

00:14:23 villita Wow yeah I've just taught you something so station B was built out
00:14:25 something so station B was built out

00:14:25 something so station B was built out here it was literally at a bend in the
00:14:27 here it was literally at a bend in the

00:14:27 here it was literally at a bend in the San Antonio River and so there was water
00:14:29 San Antonio River and so there was water

00:14:29 San Antonio River and so there was water on two sides of the facility water ran
00:14:31 on two sides of the facility water ran

00:14:32 on two sides of the facility water ran through the building to help cool the
00:14:33 through the building to help cool the

00:14:33 through the building to help cool the equipment and so that plant operated
00:14:36 equipment and so that plant operated

00:14:36 equipment and so that plant operated 24/7 until 2003 and I like to say it's
00:14:40 24/7 until 2003 and I like to say it's

00:14:40 24/7 until 2003 and I like to say it's always been a building of innovation
00:14:42 always been a building of innovation

00:14:42 always been a building of innovation because when the facility was first
00:14:43 because when the facility was first

00:14:43 because when the facility was first built the controls to run the power
00:14:45 built the controls to run the power

00:14:45 built the controls to run the power plant were on three sides of the turbine
00:14:48 plant were on three sides of the turbine

00:14:48 plant were on three sides of the turbine engines and over the decades they they
00:14:50 engines and over the decades they they

00:14:50 engines and over the decades they they started consolidating and consulting and
00:14:53 started consolidating and consulting and

00:14:53 started consolidating and consulting and upgrading and so by the time the plant
00:14:55 upgrading and so by the time the plant

00:14:55 upgrading and so by the time the plant closed in 2003 they controlled the whole
00:14:57 closed in 2003 they controlled the whole

00:14:57 closed in 2003 they controlled the whole thing from one desk Wow which is you
00:15:00 thing from one desk Wow which is you

00:15:00 thing from one desk Wow which is you know I just think phenomenal so when you
00:15:02 know I just think phenomenal so when you

00:15:02 know I just think phenomenal so when you come for a tour you can hear all my
00:15:03 come for a tour you can hear all my

00:15:03 come for a tour you can hear all my stories about how all that works so the
00:15:06 stories about how all that works so the

00:15:06 stories about how all that works so the plant was decommissioned in 2003 and as
00:15:09 plant was decommissioned in 2003 and as

00:15:09 plant was decommissioned in 2003 and as I like to say the EPA had not yet been
00:15:12 I like to say the EPA had not yet been

00:15:12 I like to say the EPA had not yet been created in 1909 and so that facility had
00:15:14 created in 1909 and so that facility had

00:15:14 created in 1909 and so that facility had a lot of asbestos lead paint PCBs you
00:15:17 a lot of asbestos lead paint PCBs you

00:15:17 a lot of asbestos lead paint PCBs you can imagine what had happened there over
00:15:18 can imagine what had happened there over

00:15:18 can imagine what had happened there over the decades yes and so CPS Energy was
00:15:21 the decades yes and so CPS Energy was

00:15:21 the decades yes and so CPS Energy was well aware that redevelopment was coming
00:15:23 well aware that redevelopment was coming

00:15:23 well aware that redevelopment was coming down the river and they took proactive
00:15:27 down the river and they took proactive

00:15:27 down the river and they took proactive action to get ahead of that and so they
00:15:29 action to get ahead of that and so they

00:15:29 action to get ahead of that and so they spent about five years and thirteen
00:15:31 spent about five years and thirteen

00:15:31 spent about five years and thirteen million dollars remediating the property
00:15:33 million dollars remediating the property

00:15:33 million dollars remediating the property it's about five acres has three
00:15:35 it's about five acres has three

00:15:35 it's about five acres has three buildings on it
00:15:36 buildings on it

00:15:36 buildings on it they were remediated it back to
00:15:38 they were remediated it back to

00:15:38 they were remediated it back to residential standards at one point there
00:15:40 residential standards at one point there

00:15:40 residential standards at one point there was a proposal to convert it into a
00:15:43 was a proposal to convert it into a

00:15:43 was a proposal to convert it into a multi-use facility with retail and
00:15:45 multi-use facility with retail and

00:15:45 multi-use facility with retail and offices and housing and that was about
00:15:48 offices and housing and that was about

00:15:48 offices and housing and that was about the turn of the decade 2009 2010 when
00:15:51 the turn of the decade 2009 2010 when

00:15:51 the turn of the decade 2009 2010 when they can
00:15:51 they can

00:15:51 they can considered that and for a number of
00:15:53 considered that and for a number of

00:15:53 considered that and for a number of reasons the board decided not to pursue
00:15:55 reasons the board decided not to pursue

00:15:55 reasons the board decided not to pursue that path at the time so it was still
00:15:58 that path at the time so it was still

00:15:58 that path at the time so it was still waiting for a new life and so when the
00:16:00 waiting for a new life and so when the

00:16:01 waiting for a new life and so when the new energy economy formed and the
00:16:04 new energy economy formed and the

00:16:04 new energy economy formed and the partnerships with our local utility took
00:16:06 partnerships with our local utility took

00:16:06 partnerships with our local utility took place and they just decided that we
00:16:09 place and they just decided that we

00:16:09 place and they just decided that we really needed to be at the forefront of
00:16:10 really needed to be at the forefront of

00:16:10 really needed to be at the forefront of the future of energy and how could we do
00:16:13 the future of energy and how could we do

00:16:13 the future of energy and how could we do that and they started looking around
00:16:14 that and they started looking around

00:16:14 that and they started looking around town okay where could we